Is joy something you find, or something you have to work at?

WATCH

Fruit of the Root, 2 of 8 from June 14, 2026

“We grow in love as we walk with God’s Spirit.”

Galatians 5 & Philippians 4 by Michael Lockstampfor (@miklocks)

SUMMARY

This sermon teaches that Biblical joy is an active choice to “rejoice in the Lord always,” grounded not in changing circumstances but in God’s unchanging character, presence, and work. Pastor Michael, candid about his own lack of natural joy, calls listeners to abide in Christ, let the Spirit grow this fruit, turn anxious fixation on what’s broken into grateful attention to what is true and good so that Spirit-produced joy is seen as a compelling witness to the reality of Jesus.

 

REFLECTION & DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

  • 💬 What circumstances are we convinced make us an exception to the joy of the Lord?

  • 💬 Is what we focus on growing joy in us?

  • 💬 Are we concerned with all the same things to all the same degrees as our neighbors who don’t know Jesus?

  • 💬 Whose kingdom are we seeking with our prayers?

 
  • Good morning, church.

    And again, I welcome our neighbors. Somebody asked me this week, how long does it take you to write a sermon? And I said, about 12 years.

    And I went back and did the math, and it's actually closer to 18.

    I answered.

    I answered a call. This is not. This isn't even that bad of a story. I don't know what to do with.

    Lord, help. And so to call to pastoral ministry. In the fall of 2007, I started formal training to go into pastoral ministry right in January of 2008 and did an undergraduate degree at Liberty University. I went to, moved to Northern Indiana and pursued a Master's of divinity at Grace Theological Seminary in Northern Indiana. And so I've got two pieces of paper that said that all I'm really good at is reading old books and telling you what they say.

    And significant amount of time serving as a youth pastor in Indiana while I was there and moving down here to Ocala. And that's where the real work started. I had to get. I had to go get a real job, and that's where I learned plant stuff. I was working as a caretaker for a private individual.

    And you're like, well, what does that have to do with your education, your qualification? Here's the deal. When your job is to pull weeds all week, you've got 40 hours a week that you can listen to audiobooks, you can listen to sermons, you can listen to podcasts, which, like, changed my life. I got four years of 40 hours a week getting paid to pull weeds and listen to stories and listen to sermons and teaching and stuff like that. So I got all of that benefit, too.

    And so how long does it take me to write a sermon? Well, I've been working on it for 18 years. All of that cumulative effort goes into whatever happens during the week. You're like, okay, well, sure, But, Michael, when did you start writing this week's sermon? Well, probably started in January.

    What do you mean you started in January? Well, Pastor Ryan and I went and we met up with the other pastors in neighborhood church, and we spent a significant amount of time praying and asking God, Lord, where would you have us go? What would you have us teach? And Galatians was on the docket, and we're like, okay, and so how do we do that? What does that look like?

    What's the shape of that? And so I've been praying about, like, this morning since January. So does I get all that time, too? And they're like, yeah, yeah, but how long does it take you to write a sermon? I'm like, I don't know, 18 years for a whole year, Maybe less earlier in the year.

    If I say four to six hours, what does that mean?

    Like, so what? Right? It's whatever. And I say all of that. I give you all of that, like, background so that maybe you'll stay.

    When I say the next thing, the next thing is, I'm still just a guy. Like, I'm still just a man. Like a human being. I still have all the same struggles that I feel like I've always had. I really struggle to wake up in the morning.

    Waking up early has never been my deal. I'm never excited about it. I struggle with sloth. And laziness is a difficulty for me. Those things are perennial sins that I've consistently had to deal with.

    I don't have it mastered. And the danger of having gone through 18 years of qualification and experience and practice is that I can get up here on a Sunday morning and I can traffic unlived truths. I can tell you and y' all what y' all ought to do, what, without me having to do any of it, right? Because most of y' all don't see me most of the week.

    Usually, if you're lucky, you don't see me all week.

    If it's a real bad week, you'll call me. But I say all that to say, we've been looking. We've been working through the book of Galatians, and we've come to this series that we're doing a deep dive on. The fruit of the Spirit. Spirit and love is like the cap.

    Like the. The thing that kind of encapsulates the whole thing. It's like the peel of the orange, but then the next layer underneath the peel is joy. And there is a fruit. Like that component of the fruit of the spirit is the thing that I feel least qualified to preach to you today.

    This sermon hasn't been difficult because it's not. Because it's hard to figure out what the text says says the sermon has been difficult because I don't know that I live it well. And so if you hear that and you're like, yep, I think I'm out, I understand completely. I would leave, too, if I wasn't contractually obligated to be here. Sometimes the thing that we do here on Sunday morning is unusual, but the reason it ever has any benefit at all is because Jesus is doing something in us and through us that we can't generate in ourselves.

    And so our goal together this morning is to take a Look at joy and to take a look at what Jesus would teach us about joy, and to take a look at what joy kind of means for us. But I don't give this as a lecture of somebody who's having accomplished joy.

    I just come to you as a guy who needs Jesus as much as you do, and I'm trying. I'm trying to trust him in what he says. So if you're with me, I'm going to ask you to pray with me. If you're like, yeah, I think I'm good, then cool. I completely understand.

    And we're going to all close our eyes. So if you disappear in the midst of that, we won't notice. It'd be good. So let's pray together. Our habit as neighborhood church is to pray the disciples prayer.

    And this is not a magic spell or anything like that. But Jesus just says, like, hey, if you're going to pray, you should pray like this. And it's helpful when we're praying together to pray kind of the same words. So if you want to, the words are here on the screen. But more than saying the right words, more than knowing the right answer, it's directing our attention and our spirit and our affection to him.

    So I'm going to take a deep breath. I'd encourage you to do that, too, before we pray together.

    Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.

    Amen. Amen.

    We have been in a series together, moving through the book of Galatians. And what we did last week is we took a look at these. These kind of two opposing lists. There was a list about what happens when we surrender ourselves to the influence of the flesh, and we just kind of do whatever seems natural, whatever comes natural to us. And it was a list that included a whole bunch of, like, kind of wicked stuff.

    Now, we debated a little bit about, oh, well, which of these wicked things are actually really, really wicked. And I just would potentially say that if it's in the scripture as a wicked thing, you should probably just assume it's all wicked, right? But then next to that list, there's a list of what happens when we surrender ourselves to the love and mercy and the grace of Jesus and we allow ourselves to be led by his spirit. And when we allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit, he grows in us. This fruit that has multiple different aspects.

    So it says, I'm going to read this to you, and then I'm going to ask you to turn somewhere different. So, so in Galatians 5. 22, it says, the fruit of the Spirit, the thing that the Spirit of God grows in us is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Against such things, there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

    If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. So in this series we've called Fruit of the Root, we're just taking a look at each one of those aspects of what it looks like to walk in step with the Spirit. It says first love. And we talked about that a little bit last week. And secondly, he talks about joy.

    And so I'm going to invite you, as we take a little bit of a deep dive on Joy, to. To navigate with me to the book of Philippians chapter four. It's just a couple of pages over, and if you're using the blue Bibles that are kind of tucked into the chairs around you, it's on page 1132 in the blue Bibles. And if you're here today and you don't have a translation of the Bible that is easy for you to read, and you like this one, then I'd encourage you to just write your name in the front of that one. Take it home.

    Let it be our gift to you. That's Philippians chapter four.

    And this passage comes at the end of a letter where the pastor has been writing to a group of people and there's been some conflict in the church. And the pastor writes. He actually writes from prison. He's been arrested for preaching the gospel. And he's like, hey, by the way, you church people, you should probably stop fighting with one another and get along.

    And they're like, oh, yeah, okay, sure. And he kind of closes the letter with this. In Philippians chapter 4, I'm going to start reading. In verse 4, he says this. Rejoice in the Lord always.

    Again, I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand. Do not be anxious about anything. But in everything, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, which will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

    Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, Whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise. Think about these things and what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me. Practice these things and the God of peace will be with you.

    Rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I will say rejoice. Just a couple of observations and like, the big idea, I think, for this section here, for this verse is this. Our joy is. Is choosing God's gift.

    Rejoice in the Lord always. And again I say rejoice. Our joy in the Lord is. Or our joy is choosing God's gift. Rejoice in the Lord always.

    Again, I say rejoice. Michael, you're repeating yourself a lot. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I say rejoice. The thing that's interesting to me about Scripture is there's times where he gives us a command and we're like, well, duh.

    And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm telling you to do this because this is not what you're doing. I'm telling you to do this because this does not come naturally to you. And so he's just finished saying, I entreat these two, like church members to be reconciled together. You guys ought to be able to get along.

    And by the way, rejoice always. And again I say rejoice.

    Rejoice. You hear the joy in the middle of that? Like, rejoice. Choose to express joy. Rejoice is a verb.

    It's a thing that we do.

    I thought joy was a feeling. Well, yeah, you could make that case. But like here he's not saying, feel joy. He's saying, rejoice. Rejoice is a verb.

    It's an action. It's something that we do. It's a command, which means that joy is a choice.

    That given a set of whatever it is that we happen to be facing during the day, we have a command that says, rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I say rejoice. Yeah, but it's hard. Yes, rejoice. But it's so good.

    Rejoice. But I'm sad. And rejoice. But it's falling apart. Rejoice.

    Again. I say rejoice. How can you say that? That seems superficial, Michael. You're just trying to be super authentic, and now you're trying to cover everything over.

    You're doing plaster all of the hard things over with this expression. You're just taking Bible verses and using them as band aids for, like, Gaping wounds like, what do you mean, rejoice in the Lord always? Don't you know that life is awful and terrible and things like that? And I said, yes, that's why I told you that I don't preach this to somebody who has grasped this because I have a lot easier time wrapping my arms around the things that hurt and the things that are broken. And the problem is I've spent so much time making amends with the things that are broke in the world that I have refused to listen to the instruction of the scripture.

    That I ought to rejoice.

    It's God's gift. It's not just rejoice because everything's great and there's rainbows and unicorns. It's rejoice in the Lord. Like, what do you. How do you, how do you rejoice when everything's hard?

    Get your eyes off of the hard thing. Get your arms off of the thing that is weighing you down and get your attention, your affection, your arms around the Lord. Rejoice in the Lord. Don't rejoice because it's hard. Don't rejoice because everything's broken.

    Don't rejoice even because everything's good. Don't rejoice just because you have a prophet. Rejoice in the Lord. Again I say rejoice in the Lord.

    It's a gift.

    I know things are broken in the world, but don't you know me? Have you met me? Allow me to reintroduce myself. I am the God who is. They call me Yahweh, the one who is.

    I am who I am. I am the only self existent entity in creation. Self existent. You know where you came from, right? Like every one of us in the room, we know that we came from somebody.

    We just did Mother's Day. You guys were all in your feelings about it, I get it. But we all come from somebody. God came from nobody. He is self existent, all powerful creator of everything you've ever imagined.

    And he asks you, hey, rejoice in me always.

    Don't rejoice in the people you like. Although I like some people not naming many names, but there are people that I like and there are people like, we go through this exercise. I work at a Christian school and they'll often be like, I want you to think about something that you're grateful for this week. And there's somebody's face that shows up in my mind every single time. It's always the same person.

    I'm grateful to have been married to Jesse for so long, My temptation is to put my joy in my spouse.

    Don't rejoice in people that you like. Don't rejoice in yourself. I'm feeling good today. Everything's going great. Did you see how I didn't, like, flip those people off in traffic?

    Don't rejoice in yourself. Don't rejoice in your circumstances.

    If you read the scripture at all, you're going to come across. And if you read the scripture at all and you're looking for joy, you're going to come across this theme, this thread that runs throughout the New Testament, that joy is tied to bad circumstances. We're reading Philippians. We're reading Philippians, a letter from a guy who's sitting in prison telling people in church to get to behave. And his instruction is, hey, rejoice.

    Not because I've got it all together, not because I'm free. I have all my liberties at my disposal. I can go anywhere I want and say anything I want. No, no, no. I am restricted.

    I am in chains because I have preached the Gospel and yet I'm encouraging you guys. Rejoice. James. One, two. Count it all joy, my brothers.

    Let me click. I'm gonna have to click a couple slides because I got them out of order.

    Yeah, we'll do that. One James, chapter one, verse two. Count it all joy, my brothers. When you meet trials of various kinds, that's. I don't want trials.

    What do you mean, joy and trials? How do those go hand in hand? Second Corinthians, he writes, I am acting with great boldness towards you. I have great pride in you. I'm filled with comfort in our affliction.

    I am overflowing with joy.

    Later in the letter. For in a severe test of affliction, their abundance of joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed with a wealth of generosity on their part.

    Colossians, he's saying, I'm praying for you guys in the city of Colossae. Have not ceased to pray for you. And we're asking because you are being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might. For all endurance and patience with joy. Endurance and patience.

    Because things are hard and they've been hard for a while. Endurance and patience with joy. Giving thanks to the Father has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints of light. First Thessalonians and you. He writes to the church there.

    And you guys became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the Word in much affliction. Much affliction. They literally beat the guy they couldn't find. They went looking for Paul in Thessalonica. They went looking for Paul.

    They're like, paul, you gotta stop preaching. They couldn't find him. They went to his Airbnb and beat up his Airbnb host. They were so frustrated. He says, you guys had affliction.

    Your whole town was against this message that you had embraced. And yet you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the Word and much affliction with the joy of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews, they're literally robbing the community of Christians simply for putting their faith in Jesus. But you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.

    That's not what the guys in the suits on the TV say. I thought if I walked with the Lord, that everything would go easy. I thought if I gave him something, if I gave him 10%, then he'd give me 20. I thought, that's the exchange that we got going on. It's not what the scriptures say.

    Scriptures say when stuff gets hard, that's where we get to choose joy.

    In this, you rejoice, though now for a little while if necessary. You have been grieved by various trials so that the tested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him, though you do not now see him. You believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory.

    We don't rejoice in people that we like. We don't rejoice in ourselves, and we don't rejoice in our circumstances. We rejoice in the Lord.

    So what circumstances are we convinced make us an exception to the joy of the Lord? I'm like, cool. I'm super glad for those New Testament Christians. They were locked in. They were walking with Jesus when stuff got hard.

    When you squeezed those Christians, joy came out. I'm happy for them. Let me tell you all the reasons why I'm the exception to that rule. Let me tell you the reasons why Jesus isn't, like, filling me with his joy, because I've got an excuse. I've got a reason.

    I can justify my joyless life. And if it sounds like I'm familiar with that thought process, know that it Came out of my head.

    What circumstances are we convinced make us an exception to the joy of the Lord? Because there's multiple different communities. All of these letters are written to different communities that are going through hardships and responding with joy.

    All right, Michael.

    I'll try. I'll try to be more joyful.

    Oh, I didn't give you that one.

    Joy is an aspect of the fruit of the spirit. It's a result of abiding in Jesus and walking in step with his spirit. I don't give you that big list. And if you can click the next slide, I don't know why my clicker isn't consistent. But it's not that we say, okay, I see that joy is a goal.

    And so let me come up with some. Some goals and, like, a New Year's resolution that I'm just. Joy is going to be my word and I'm going to be joyful no matter what. Like, that's not what he's saying. He's saying, the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, that this is the fruit of what God grows in your life.

    It's not a goal, and it's not a new law by which we get to hammer each other with, because that's our instinct. When God tells us something to do, we just, okay, I got a thing. I got it from God. Now I gotta go beat people with it. You guys better start smiling.

    Stop posting that negative stuff on social media. Don't you know we're supposed to be ambassadors of joy?

    How do we get there? How do we get there? It was there in Philippians, there towards the end. Let me read for you again, verses eight and nine. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise.

    Think. Think about these things, what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me. Practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. He says, hey, some of the problem is the thing that you're fixating your attention on. He says, is there anything good in the world?

    Yeah. And by the way, I would say the fact that we can acknowledge that there is anything good in the world is a sign that, like, God is doing something. But if there is, if there is perhaps something possibly positive, why don't you think about that instead of thinking about all the ways that it's wrong or all the ways that it's broken, or all the ways it's not quite what you thought it could be. Or all the ways that it could go squirrely in the future, possibly if somebody takes it the wrong way. If there's anything true, think about that.

    If there's anything honorable, think about that. If there's anything pure or lovely or commendable, think about those things. If there's anything that's excellent, if there's anything that's worthy of praise, let that be the thing that you fix your attention on and then let that thought shape your. Practice what you've learned and received and heard in me. Practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

    There's a hairline here, right? I'm trying to give you. Well, what do I do if I'm not joyful? What do I do? Here's as close as I got to 10 steps to be a joyful Life.

    It's close, but I can't give that to you and also say, so try harder. Try. Because it's the fruit of the Spirit, and I can't. You can't extract a fruit from a plant. Like, if I've got an orange tree that doesn't have any oranges on it, I can't go to the orange tree and be like, give me an orange.

    I can't, like, reach into it and pull one out of the roots. Right? It just has. I have to wait for it to grow. Like, oh, man.

    But I. I'm feeling convicted. You're coming down heavy on the joyless thing. And, like, I'm kind of there with you. I'm like, oh, yeah, I get it. Right?

    What do we do? We wait, and we fix our minds and think about the things that are good, and we try to practice them. And we walk in step with the Spirit and wait for him to grow a joyful perspective on the things that we're facing.

    So this is the simple an application question, as I can give you, is what we focus on growing joy in us? What are we focusing on? Is what we're focusing on growing joy in us, or are we fixated on everything that's broken and growing something different?

    Big idea. If you can flip to that slide for me, is that God grows our joy as we focus on his glory and his work. God grows our joy as we focus on his glory and work. Rejoice in your turn. Rejoice in the Lord.

    How often? Always. And again. I'll say. You got it.

    You guys just memorized scripture. You didn't know that you were getting bonuses when you came to church this morning?

    God grows our joy as we focus on his glory and work. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I'll say rejoice. Verse 5. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone.

    The Lord is at hand. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand. Our joy is Jesus tool. Witness.

    Our joy is Jesus tool for witnesses. Let your reasonableness be known to everybody.

    The Lord's at hand. Like God's doing something. He's working something. He's bringing all of creation to an. An end point where he finally fixes everything that's broken.

    And in the meantime, he's left us as his ambassadors. And so we should be people that are pretty locked in on it. Doesn't all have to be good right now. I know good's a coming.

    And let your reasonableness be known to all, to everybody, not just to people that you like, not just to the people who know you best, not just the people who don't know you at all. Because we can put forth a front of reasonableness. Some of us have worked in customer service. Like, the whole back room can be on fire and we can smile and talk through like, yes, let me help you with your problem. I'm so glad to help.

    My pleasure.

    Let your reasonableness, like your actual reasonableness be known to everybody. Our joy is a tool for witness. Like, okay, cool. But what do I have to be joyful for?

    Sometimes I lead us in order to lead myself. Okay. That's one of the privileges of being pastors. Sometimes they lead us to lead ourselves. And so what we do on Sunday morning, we call a worship celebration.

    Have you heard it before? We call a worship celebration. It's on the sign. And then when we get in here and I get up here to tell you guys what we're here to do, I say, we are here to celebrate Jesus. Right?

    Okay, cool. That's for you guys. It's also for me because sometimes I forget I want for us, as we gather to celebrate Jesus, to look at the good things, to think about the good things, to celebrate the good things that Jesus is doing in us.

    Even when I have a week where I feel like I don't have anything to rejoice or celebrate for.

    How can you do that? How can your baseline foundation, weekly rhythm be a weekly rhythm of celebration? Michael, that sounds immensely optimistic. It didn't come from me.

    It's because, friends, we were dead. We were dead and spiritually isolated from the subject, self existent creator of the universe. God made everything. And we did not have a way that we could talk to him because we had actively Rejected his leadership. We'd actively said, you know what, God?

    I see who you are. I see what you're doing there. And I'm going to do a better job. I don't need you. Thank you very much.

    We rebelled. We mutinied against God's authority in our life and we walked away and said, I'll be my own God. And he says, you don't even know how to do that. You can't even hold two atoms together. What do you mean you're going to be God, But I'll let you go.

    In fact, I'll give you grace so that you can storm out of here pretending like you're God. Like, I'll let you think that that's a thing that you can be. But I'm going to continue to let you think that you can be that while I'm trying to convince you that I'm the God, I'm the one. Why? Because I love you.

    And God, knowing all things, beginning to end every motivation of my heart, said, you know what? I want to extend grace. I want to give to Michael a favor that he does not deserve. He thinks he can be God. He should be able to generate all the favor he needs and he can't do it.

    So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give him favor that he doesn't deserve, but is going to cost me my son. Son. I'm going to willingly send my son to die to be a substitute for all of the things that Michael broke. It's going to cost me immensely, but I'm going to give it to him for free.

    And my biggest problem is that I am isolated from my Creator.

    And I've got the confidence every single week to start my week with a reminder that his costly, undeserved grace is extended to me freely. And he invites me to be with him and to walk in step with him. Not just invites me to walk in step, not just we're going to go for a stroll. We've talked about it. Adopted me into his family.

    He said, no, no, you were a stranger. You were a hostile foreign entity. You were invading army. And I'm actually going to take you. I'm going to adopt you as my son.

    I'm going to put you at my table with my other children. We're going to be a family and your life is going to be transformed. It may not feel like it sometimes, but I am doing something new in you that you could not generate in yourself. It's so foreign to you that you Sometimes don't even notice that I'm doing it. We've been adopted.

    We've been transformed. And he has set us free from our death and our sin and, and our slavery, to everything that's natural to us so that we can be free to walk in step with him and to love like he loves.

    We've got a reason to be joyful.

    And sometimes I know that, and sometimes I believe that.

    And maybe by his grace he'll make it evident by the way that I live, that that is a foundational truth in my life. But I'm young, 36, something like that. I don't remember. I'm young.

    But you know what's crazy? God doesn't like. God continues to work in people's lives. God gives decades and decades and decades and decades of grace and decades. And do you want to know what that looks like?

    I can't remember the guy's name. Now. John Lennox. Looks like John Lennox. Maybe a name that you're familiar with.

    He is an apologetics. Like he is popular on YouTube for doing apologetics. So he talks to people who don't believe in Jesus about why it's reasonable to believe in Jesus. And Jesse came to me this week and she's like, hey, I just listened to this podcast. It was crazy.

    Like, like an hour and a half with John Lennox and this agnostic guy who doesn't believe in God, doesn't believe in Jesus. And it's just crazy how that interview went. I was like, cool. And then like a clip of that interview showed up on my feed and I was like, oh, oh, that's it. So I'm gonna share a clip with you.

    And I don't. The technology side this morning is kooky. So we're gonna drag a window over here. I don't know what ads you're gonna see. I'm sorry, this was the best that I could do, but I wanted to show you.

    We're at the end of this hour and a half video. So I, I don't know how long they've been talking, but at least an hour and a half. And they're wrapping up the interview. And this is a guy who's a professional. The name of the podcast is Diary of a CEO.

    So business minded person and agnostic, believes there's something, but doesn't know that we can actually know what it is. He sat with this man for an hour or so, and this is kind of how he closes the interview.

    We got audio.

    It's his. Let me ask you a final question. Then, which is what is the most important thing we haven't talked about, that we should have talked about as it relates to all of the work in these tangential subjects? Oh, I can't answer that.

    Perhaps the most important thing is finding the trigger that will help you to take a step forward into faith, into the Christian faith. And I would just encourage you to keep asking your questions in the open way you've done. And I've regarded it an honour to have this discussion, and I hope pretty much it won't be the last one. But age may prevent that. But thank you very much.

    We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next, not knowing who they're leaving it for.

    And the question that's left for you.

    In a world with so many challenges, what can we do to restore hope and trigger engagement, give people a real basis for hope that transcends this world? And the only place I know where to find that is in Christ and in Christianity. John, thank you. One of the most compelling arguments for God that you've presented and your way of seeing the world and being is not actually necessarily anything you've written in your books, or not necessarily anything you've said. It is.

    It is actually you. And you have a certain peace and contentment that I rarely see in people that I interview, but I often see and I've almost always seen in the Christians that I've interviewed. And this is a interesting phenomenon for me. I interviewed Wesley Huff recently. Do you know Wesley Huff?

    Yes, yes, he was the same. Canadian. Yeah. Wesley's a bright cookie. Yeah, he was very much.

    He gave me the same feeling as you. Just like, feels like a really happy person. Very sort of content, rounded. Well, there are many of us. Yeah.

    But it seems to be a trend that, you know, a lot of the Christian apologists that I've interviewed have that anchoring that. Yeah. So many of us are looking for. There's a real sense of that. You know, I sit in front of many people and of course, they often ask me questions I don't even understand.

    But in life, that peace is very important to me. And also what we started with, when I look at you, I see someone who's of infinite value, made in the image of God. And so what I say to you or think about you is hugely important to me. And I wish you well. Thank you.

    I highly recommend. I mean, you've written so many books. I don't have all of them here, but I have a long list of them. But so we'll Just let John. I highly recommend everybody go.

    Our joy is Jesus's tool for witness.

    And it's not astonished. It's not surprising to me that there are young guys that buy into a radical philosophy. It's not surprising to me that people that are 36 can continue to try to work in a career like I have done. What is astonishing to me is that there are men like John Lennox who can live decades and decades and decades and see all of the same news and see all of the worst sides of humanity and continue to put their faith and trust in Jesus and walk through life with joy. The Lord is at hand.

    It is Jesus in you as you abide in him, not something that you generate. Because God grows our joy as we focus on his glory and work.

    And finally, verse six, do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.

    And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

    Our joy is choosing God's gift. Our joy is Jesus tool for witness. Our joy is a weapon against the enemy.

    Do not be anxious about anything.

    Michael, how are you going to give a caveat to that? How are you going to let me off the hook? How are you going to explain that one over way so that I don't have to believe it? I got nothing. Do not be anxious about anything.

    Well, Michael, don't you know, don't you know? Don't you know? I'll come back and ask a question. What circumstances are we convinced that make us an exception to the joy of the Lord?

    Do not be anxious about anything. How in everything? By prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving. Let your requests be made known to God.

    If you think about it like what you when you're getting dressed in the morning, there's some things that like we sleep in, they become part of us, right? They're an outfit. Oh, that's just part of who I am. And Jesus says it's not, it's what you choose to wear.

    And so the instruction here is to take off anxiety and to put on gratitude.

    Take off anxiety and put on gratitude. That's just so superficial. How can you stand up there and give that as a real answer? Friends, I don't have anything better than what Jesus said. I'm not smarter than him.

    How does it work? What if I understand, but what if instead of what if ing we just did it?

    Take off anxiety, put on gratitude. Do not be anxious about anything. The Lord is at hand. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God. Tell him what's on, going, going on.

    And trust that the Lord is at hand, that whatever it is that we're facing, he is working something out and he loves us and he extends his costly grace to us who do not deserve it freely.

    Thankful prayers are greater than anxious prayers.

    I think that that's truth. Thankful prayers are greater than anxious prayers. But don't take that and say, oh, Michael said, I'm never allowed to have any anxious feelings. Michael said, I'm never allowed to pray when I'm anxious because those prayers don't count. That's not what I said.

    Do it. If you're praying, pray. However comes naturally. Start wherever you're at. That's what God's asking for.

    Don't say, well, the preacher said that if you're not going to pray grateful prayers, you're not supposed to pray. So I'm never going to pray again. Don't do that, like, start where you're at. But know that his invitation from those anxious prayers is to grow in you a heart of gratitude and peace that expresses joy back to God about the good things that he has directed your attention to dwell on. Because there are many times that I come to God with all of the problems of the world, and there are many times where He.

    He sits patiently and listens to me whine and cry and complain and scream and yell and curse. And then he says, I hear you, Michael. Have you considered.

    Don't you remember what I did? Have you not seen what I am doing in your midst?

    Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Joy and peace. They're right there together. That's a little bit we'll talk about peace next week.

    That's the next bit of the first fruit that we're going to discuss. But for today, God grows our joy as we focus on his glory and work. So consider your prayers. Just play them back to you. Don't start praying right now.

    Just think about what your prayers have sounded like this last week. And let me just ask, whose kingdom are we seeking when we pray?

    And I don't say that as a condemnation. I say that so that you are aware of what your natural state is, so that you can then lean on the Spirit. Because if we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its desires and passions. Whose kingdom are we seeking with our prayers?

    Let's pray now.

    God, it's always been youn, Lord, I am acutely aware of my own weakness and shortcomings. And Father, if there's something that I've said today that's been distracting or misleading or not helpful, God, I pray that those things would be forgotten really quick, but that Jesus, where your word has been declared, God, I pray that we would not be able to shake it, that we'd not be able to walk away, that it would tether us to the rock of our salvation and that in the places where we are not surrendered to you, God, that you would continue to put push and press and prod and invite us into your love and your joy, a confidence that you are able to deal with all of the problems and that you're going to deal with them in all the rightest ways possible.

    Jesus, it's above my pay grade to tell you how to do your job.

    And so, Lord, I just pray that you would grow in me a sense of joy for the good gifts that you've given me.

    And a love for that which you love the most.

    Lord, for each of us, whatever it is, whatever those influences are, would you help us to turn down the noise and the volume of our flesh and tune our ear to hear your spirit so that we can walk in step with you, in step, not running ahead and trying to do more than you're asking us to, taking more responsibility, responsibility, holding up bigger standards than you're asking for us to do. Keep in step with you, not dragging behind and being dull, lethargic, unmotivated, Keeping in step to hear your voice and to respond today. Yes, Lord.

    Lord, it's not something that we can grow in ourselves. And so I just pray that you would do your work in our hearts this morning, that you'd inspire us to lean closer into you and to follow you.

    Lord, if there's somebody who's hearing me that's realizing I don't have any of that, none of that's growing, growing in me. And I don't know that I even know who Jesus is. Lord, I pray that today would be the day that they would come to youo and introduce themselves, Say, I know that I'm not what I ought to be, but Jesus yous say youy'll remake me and so I give myself to youo. To do what yout will in me.

    Thank you for this morning. It's in Jesus name that I pray. Amen.

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